Curse

Mountain Man · May 29, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

"Guild Wars, in contrast, is based around your skill as a player. Our maximum level is twenty and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play."

Wow...I'm slow. I've put in a little over 60 hours, and I only just reached level 18 last night!

Mormegil · May 29, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashock

Please, this is the prototypical condescending line that is being used over and over on these forums. Look around you people. A good 35-40% of people here (if not higher) is already bored with this game. The game is only 1 month old. Get the picture? Big difference between "I got bored after 2 years" and "I got bored after 1 month". You will be spouting this crap up until you yourself are bored... about a month from now or have 2 ascended characters. Then, suddenly you will become one of those "less mature players" according to someone else. Except the number of those who are less mature, will keep getting higher and higher......

-A

Ashock is right: many people just want to brag about being level 89, they just leave when they discover they can't here. It's nothing more than subtle psychology. We're accustomed to see that little number changing, which is an undisputable reward for your 400+ hours of playing, even if you are an asinine player who can't distinguish between their butt-hole and an airplane.

Ashock is right again when he says that the number will get higher, and I dont think 13 yrs old guys will be the only ones to leave. More will come, of course, because of the game's appeal and because there's no monthly fee, and some of them will leave as well.

So what? The game is gorgeous as it is, there's much room for improvement as well, expansions and major updates are on their way.

The only thing I dont like in your well thought post, dear Ashlock, is that ridiculous statistics of yours... 35-40%? It's the contrary, my friend. This game is having indeed a huge success and is getting more and more popular, %s are totally different, but I dont want to annoy anyone talking about pointless (and opinable) percentages.

Ashock seems to me a nervous Everquest 2 player who, after grinding for 3 months on the same group of Pink Frogs, couldnt find the item he looked for, which was useful to craft half of the leggings of an armor for a lvl 1.5 character.

Too bad Ashock, I feel sorry for you.

liuzg · May 29, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimu

eleventy-six% of people know that!

And 91% of the ppl thinks that George W. Bush's IQ point is two times more than that of Ashock's.

Synncial77 · May 29, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

As for the actual topic, the "this game starts at level 20" is kinda untrue. I've heard people spout out such things like "once you hit level 20 you're only 25% of the way through the game". Well, that's bull.

I've gone through all the missions. I hit level 20 just a tiny bit before ascending (which puts you at level 20 anyways). Once you've ascended I'd venture a guess to say that, assuming you've done all the missions/quests beforehand, you've gone through 80% of the game/content.

Once you've ascended, and done the dragon's lair quest, there's one quest left in the desert to do but afterwards all that's left is the Shiverpeak Mountains and the..uhhh..volcano area. True, there are difficult tasks ahead of you here but it really comes down to the competancy of your teammates on whether or not you'll complete these missions.

Echo Eternal · May 29, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Well, people are welcome to be condescending and jerks on either side of this argument.

In my opinion, however, Ash is correct. Despite those of you who tout the "lack of a carrot" at the end of the road, many gamers stay interested in games BECAUSE of that carrot. We play games for two reasons: community and character advancement. Part of that advancement is content. But lets face it: after a few months most of the content, in the strictest sense of the word, will have been experienced. So what is to keep us here? Nothing, frankly, until additional content is uploaded.

And, yes, I am an EQ player. So if you want to deride my opinion by pointing out that I camped single mobs for extended periods of time to acquire items that advanced my character, you are welcome to it. Doesn't change the fact that I have been a gamer for more than five years and as a general rule, having played 6 different MMOs, have a pretty good understanding of what keeps gamers hooked on a game. If the content isn't there and the character advancement carrots aren't there, most gamers will get bored and leave. Less of a problem with that in this game since we don't pay a monthly fee.

Mormegil · May 29, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Everquest is possibly the other side of the fence. It's totally different from Guild Wars. It's another concept. I think grinding is stupid, but hey, it's my personal opinion.
I have no doubt Everequest Pve is probably the biggest around. Still, if you read some reviews here and there, you will hear the same thing: people are bored to death. Wasting 40 hours of their lives just to get from lvl 61 to lvl 62 is atrocious.

Pve is fairly good here: gorgeous graphics, cool monsters, very fascinating style and so on. It's not as big as Everquest, of course, but it compensates this lack with probably the best skill system EVER. Period.
GW PvP is a new level of fun: playing with a good team of friends (allow me to say a serious E2 player doesnt even have the time to make a lot of them

) and studying what's the best strategy to beat your adversaries in the arena is a chaotic bliss.

Plus, it involves sociality, which is not a bad thing!

I'd love playing E2 if I were immortal. Time tickles though...

liuzg · May 30, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Eternal

Well, people are welcome to be condescending and jerks on either side of this argument.

In my opinion, however, Ash is correct. Despite those of you who tout the "lack of a carrot" at the end of the road, many gamers stay interested in games BECAUSE of that carrot. We play games for two reasons: community and character advancement.

I agree on community part,and to a lesser extent character advancement.
Personally community part is the more impt reason why i play this game.

Quote:

Part of that advancement is content. But lets face it: after a few months most of the content, in the strictest sense of the word, will have been experienced. So what is to keep us here? Nothing, frankly, until additional content is uploaded.

Community i guess,but then you dun have to play it too often.

Quote:

And, yes, I am an EQ player. So if you want to deride my opinion by pointing out that I camped single mobs for extended periods of time to acquire items that advanced my character, you are welcome to it.

ZZZZ.....

Quote:

Doesn't change the fact that I have been a gamer for more than five years

Being a contemporary gamer for more than fives years(6?7?) is nothing. Real hardcore gamers can be 10+ yrs,during the time when you have to type DOS command prompt(and no windows interface,unless you are using 'Apples').
I had been playing PC games for 14~15 yrs,with 'Prince of Persia' as my first game,some memorable ones are Romance of 3 Kingdoms series, Civilisation, Quest for Glory series, Police Quest series, Wolfenstein 3D, Dune 2 etc~~~

Quote:

and as a general rule, having played 6 different MMOs, have a pretty good understanding of what keeps gamers hooked on a game.

Have you played UO?

Quote:

If the content isn't there and the character advancement carrots aren't there, most gamers will get bored and leave.

Quite true,leaving hardcore gamers behind,who would be the gem of the game.

Quote:

Less of a problem with that in this game since we don't pay a monthly fee.

Precisely.

DrSLUGFly · May 30, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

This thread has opened my eyes in a lot of ways concerning levels and gaming in general.

I'm at level 17 but about to start over again with a whole new account. Previously I never really paid attention to level except for when I was close to levelling (within 1000 xp) or when I was waiting to cap off a certain attribute.

Now I'm looking forward to playing from an entirely new perspective...

Ashock · May 30, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Ashock seems to me a nervous Everquest 2 player who, after grinding for 3 months on the same group of Pink Frogs, couldnt find the item he looked for, which was useful to craft half of the leggings of an armor for a lvl 1.5 character.

I do not and have not play MMORPGs. I have however, played other RPG type action games for a good 10 years now almost exclusively and I know how to distinguish between those games that are classics and those that are just a flash in the pan. This is one of the later ones, unfortunately. The reason I say unfortunately is the same reason that I am still posting on these forums and still the reason why I occasionally play GW for an hour or so at a time. That reason is that this game had so much potential for being a classic that it's frustrating to see it not realize that potential. All because the designers were so busy trying to be different that they overlooked a tried and true formula that works, that formula being character development. This game lacks it completely after lvl 20 and Ascention, period. They fix that, and they right away push this game to the forefront of the list of classics, like Diablo and Diablo 2. Without that, this is an MP version of Dungeon Siege. I played that game for 2 weeks and suddenly realised that it was a complete POS and I never touched it again. This is better, I admit. However, in the long run not by much and only due to the fact that it's MP.

At least one person from the team who I've seen post here used to be heavily involved in Daibloii.net. I'm hoping she is listening.

-A

BlaineTog · May 30, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Eternal

In my opinion, however, Ash is correct. Despite those of you who tout the "lack of a carrot" at the end of the road, many gamers stay interested in games BECAUSE of that carrot. We play games for two reasons: community and character advancement. Part of that advancement is content. But lets face it: after a few months most of the content, in the strictest sense of the word, will have been experienced. So what is to keep us here? Nothing, frankly, until additional content is uploaded.

This explains perfectly why Halo and other PvP FPS' have all failed miserably.

Dax · May 30, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Just my 2 cents

Heh, I for one miss the "the carrot". I often find myself between "this is boring, why am I wasting my time" and "this game is pretty cool". I'm one of those people who enjoys farming, crafting and aquiring cool new armor and weapons to show off. I just upgraded my Necro armor and it looks exactly the same as my previous set.

I have the same weapons pretty much through a good chunk of the game, and usually end up with a bag full of new weapons and other things that don't really amount to anything. My chest is filled to the brim with crafting things but there is really nothing I can do with them, except sell em'.

Now some of the quests are pretty cool, but they are rather easy...not to mention I see the same 3 or 4 kinds of baddies. I really wanted to try some pvp action, but I missed the lvl 10 capped area and since I'm lvl 12 looks like I have a ways to go to the next arena. (yes I can play PVP, but I wanna use my character that I've been playing.)

I've only had the game for a couple of weeks, playing off and on so I'm hopin things sorta pick up a bit. I will be hoping that the lvl 20 experience is worth it.

SOT · May 30, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

This thread title is absurd. I bought the game, installed it, and began "running around and playing it".

Difficulty after ascension or not, it was a game for me from the first load up. Wtf?

stumpy · Jun 03, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashock

Please, this is the prototypical condescending line that is being used over and over on these forums. Look around you people. A good 35-40% of people here (if not higher) is already bored with this game. The game is only 1 month old. Get the picture? Big difference between "I got bored after 2 years" and "I got bored after 1 month". You will be spouting this crap up until you yourself are bored... about a month from now or have 2 ascended characters. Then, suddenly you will become one of those "less mature players" according to someone else. Except the number of those who are less mature, will keep getting higher and higher......

-A

- Please, hold your generalizations to yourself. I have 3 ascended characters and another in lions arch racing to ascention ... this game is based on after 20. I am not bored. No reason to ... sure finished all the quests pffft. Finished the final mission ... but I enjoy all aspects of the gameplay ... including running the map on my own to develop my skills, playing in the PvP ... do you have all the skills? I don't think so ... I enjoy hunting them ... I have all but 4 elites for my ranger and closing in on those for my other characters. When I have them all unlocked, I will unlock the runes (again, can be done by farming off on my own). Are you in a guild ... have you ever guild battled ... sick of Fissure and U/W already? ... I dont know about you but I could PvP for hours because its exciting and challenging ... in fact its the best place to test your skills, and learn new strategies.

Dont generalize, because everyone I play with loves the game ... sorry about the low percentage *your guild* that may not ...

Epinephrine · Jun 03, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I think it depends why you got the game. If you bought it for an MMORPG experience you will be disappointed.

If you bought it for some PvE fun on the way to PvP combat you are probably thrilled.

If you bought it soley for PvP you'll be annoyed.

I agree that AN have possibly made some bad choices, one of which is probably trying to unite PvE and PvP in this way. True PvPers hate the unlocking through PvE, PvE players tend to hate the level cap which is important to PvPers and want more ways to have characters "progress". I don't like MMORPGs, I did like D2, and I play FPS in leagues, so I am pretty much made for this game - I like competitive play, I like RPGs that don't require huge time commitments but allow a lot of exploration and fun. With 25-30 hours on my characters (each) they are all pretty advanced, but none are done the game yet; I've had some nice runs in Tombs and am looking forward to more, and we will hopefully all be ready for GvG to get that part of the game going soon.

A game does not need "character progression" to be fun or to survive - CS and DoD are still popular years after release and are played competitively, and my grunt with a Garand or Karbiner 98k is the exact same grunt as I started with (well, he's changed a little through patches and stuff, but there is no "progress" other than my adjusting my mouse sensitivity when I switch weapons.

adam.skinner · Jun 03, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

You need to put on a new paradigm if you're going to play GW and enjoy yourself for an extended period of time (as the MMORPGers measure it). Once the character advancement is "done" (as it is in every single MMORPG eventually), you're left with the core: the actual gameplay. If you don't enjoy the game, but simply enjoy watching and growing your character, then GW is going to get boring for you quicker than other MMORPGs that rely on the character advancement treadmill to retain their playerbase.

Guild Wars relies on enjoyable gameplay. You stop advancing your character 2/3 of the way through the game. Sure, you can capture elite skills, but before too long youv'e gotten everything you want. What then?

Enjoy the *game*. Enjoy the cooperation and the competition. Enjoy exploring. Enjoy helping others.

If you cannot, your time here will come to a premature end.

Lomax · Jun 03, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

same problem for me, i will never do PvP.

And the game is starting to get a bit boring.

I am waiting on sacred underworld to come out in the USA, as you can see i am all hack and slash. I do play hardcore only in Sacred and it has the very best people playing, you never get over seeing your 100 lvl get a near death flash!. People realy post in the forum about a charater death, it is a big deal! There is a real rush, when your charater dies and it is gone for good! 60 hours of gameing pushing it up and one mistake and it is all GONE! If they could make the game so it could be played as a hard core one death and your done it would be very cool.

I also miss the how easy it is to make a party in sacred and how fun it is to see a 50 lvl running for his life with 30 orcs trailing behind him, in HC we rush to his aid and help him out. If GW had just the quest parts as seperat but you could still pass others on the road, or pitch in and help when things get tough for some lone player in would make the outside world less empty place.

smitty-gw · Jun 03, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Although the game has some issues, it is relatively new and the Devs are showing interest in our feedback and changing it.

I am still finishing my first character and am at the infusion quests. The jungle slowed my interest a bit, but I loved the ascension quests. I enjoyed time it took to arrive at the right strategies.

Unfortunately, even I am not as interested in this game as I was with D2 shortly after its release. It still feels a bit constricting to me.

The problem is that there is a certain penalty for those who want to put their all into this game. The bragging rights of high levels has been removed.
"I'm lvl 20". "So what, I'm lvl 20 too".

Even the item farmers, which was the downfall of D2 in my opinion, are frustrated with the lack of variety.
"I got a max dam 15-22 sword". "So what, I got a max dam 15-22 sword also".

This game does tend to force cooperative group play more than others, especially D2, in order to be successful in the later missions. A lot of people just don't like that. They want to be godly and self-sufficient.

The bottom line is, this is not D2, and some people haven't let go of that comparison yet.

This may not be the game for everyone, but I hardly think it deserves outright scorn already.

The Flounder · Jun 03, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Coming from fps games, this game is very addictive to me, I originally started with the Delta Force series and have been playing CS for quite some time, I like being able to switch from PvP and PvE, the game itself is a lot of fun, I try not to compare games, just play them, if they are fun I keep playing, if they suck I delete them and move on.

Epinephrine · Jun 03, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty-gw

The problem is that there is a certain penalty for those who want to put their all into this game. The bragging rights of high levels has been removed.
"I'm lvl 20". "So what, I'm lvl 20 too".

Even the item farmers, which was the downfall of D2 in my opinion, are frustrated with the lack of variety.
"I got a max dam 15-22 sword". "So what, I got a max dam 15-22 sword also".

Yeah, but how about "I held the Hall of Heroes"; "My Guild is ranked X on the ladder" etc...

One issue with Hall of Heroes is that there's only the one. This results in one group being able to hold it for a long time. In most competitive games there are "leagues", and within leagues there are "divisions". For those starting in competitve play it is nice to start in "Open" leagues or "Bronze", then move up to "Silver" or "Main", and finally to levels like "Gold" and "Invitational".

I suspect GvG will allow for more of that kind of thing, as you can aim for other guilds of similar rank and try to advance past them. Hall of heroes though may need some type of ranking, breaking it into "divisions" in order to keep it interesting. Arena as well should pit more successful teams against one another, so that teams with more consecutive victories are paired up against other teams with more consecutive victories, rather than random pairings. This would make winning stretches more impressive, as you would know that they would be playing against the other good teams out there.

Dazzler · Jun 03, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Wow...I'm slow. I've put in a little over 60 hours, and I only just reached level 18 last night!

Don't feel bad. I've put in about the same and hit 19 last night. I think I am close to Riverside, which I think means I am close to the Crystal Desert everyone talks about.